Here is Suze Orman’s FIRE protection gear: $5 million dollars to retire early. Really? Do tell. Care to elaborate. Absolutely.
It was around late 2018 that I heard talk of Suze Orman’s thoughts on the FIRE movement.
The rumblings in the financial blogsphere was that when Suze was asked her opinion about the FIRE movement on the Paula Pant podcast Afford Anything and she says, “I hate it, I hate it, I hate it.”
Suze told Paula Pant that $2 million isn’t enough for early retirement. At a 4 percent withdrawal rate, that’s $80,000 per year, which she says isn’t enough to protect you “when the floods come.”
“If you only have a few hundred thousand, or a million, or two million dollars, I’m here to tell you … if a catastrophe happens, if something happens, what are you going to do? You are going to burn up alive.”
The “Suze Slapdown” of ’18 was coined. And I thought watching WWE Smackdown was tough. Whew! They ain’t got nothing on Suze when it comes to laying the smackdown on finances.
She made headlines for saying that people who buy a daily latte are “peeing $1 million down the drain as you are drinking that coffee.” On Suze’s watch, spending at Starbucks SBUX is a no-no.
Let’s not drop out of corporate America on a whim and stop working. Get back to work.
Check out the tweet below that 2020 Democratic Presidential candidate Bernie Sanders tweeted out last year to see what I mean.
Suze Orman’s the sky is falling attitude about retiring early is not so far-fetched now during the coronavirus.
For anyone who isn’t up to speed on the FIRE acronym, it stands for Financial Independence, Retire Early. I am all for Financial Independence (FI).
This is me. Financial Independence: count me in!
Retire Early: slow down tito!
The focus of FIRE is to retire early by stopping the corporate grind and ending the rat race in your 30s or 40s, and not 55 or 65.
However, I am not yet ready to be put out to pasture. Luckily, other leaders in the FIRE movement gave some clarification and said that FIRE is not about stopping work, but finding your passion and earning passive income streams that keeps the money flowing.
The goal is to live life On. Your. Terms. So, I thought to myself okay. I can live with that.
Saving 25 times your current income and then retiring before age 40 without continuing to make money is risky.
The notion is that you can then afford to live off of your savings by limiting your withdrawals to just 4% of your assets each year.
Meaning if you earn $75,000 a year, then you need to save about $1.9 million before walking away from work. Money that was supposed to last starting from age 65, now has to starting from age 35.
I think what got Suze in an uproar was when an audience member asked her about her plans on FIRE that was posted on MarketWatch.
The millennial had caught the FIRE bug and she was looking to hang it up within two years.
“Well, how much money do you have?” Orman asked. “Two or three million?”
No.
“A million?”
No.
“$250,000?”
Yes, but with some debt.
“Really?” Orman could only shake her head.
“Don’t talk to me about it. If that’s what you want to do, go ahead. But 40 years from now, I hope you remember everything I’ve said.”— Suze Orman, on retiring in your 20s
According to Suze, “time is the most important ingredient in your financial recipe.”
As financial blogger Mr. Money Mustache put it bluntly: “In the interview, Suze Orman goes on and on about what might go wrong, and how you need an incredible amount of money saved to protect you, just in case. But this thinking is completely backwards – money will not cure your fear, as megamillionaire Suze proves so clearly. Most high-income people are still within just a few paychecks of insolvency, because it is possible to blow almost any paycheck, simply by adding or upgrading more cars, houses, and vacations. Physical health FIRST: Salads and barbells every day, no goddamned excuses.”
Real estate financial expert and FIRE member Coach Carson posted some great advice on Suze’s opinion: “As Paula said after the interview, we should all make a practice of listening deeply to others (especially if you disagree). If you can reserve judgment temporarily, you can always learn something.”
Coach Carson says time not money is the most precious thing we have. The biggest regret is time wasted when people are on their deathbed. People do not wish they worked more or spent more time in that cubicle or corner office.
Very true. Washington Post financial columnist, Michelle Singletary, also weighed in on the interview. She says “let’s also put this debate in perspective. Many people aren’t saving enough to retire at all – early or late.”
I remember when my portfolio hit $100,000. It took half the time to get the next $100,000 and zoom to $200,000. Next stop, $250,000. That’s right a quarter of a million.
Then I was looking to moving on up like The Jeffersons to the tune of $300,000, $400,000, $500,000 and beyond. I only move forwards. I never look backwards. I could still work for another 30 years if I want to. Without putting in another penny, if I let this money ride I could have between $1 million and $2.6 million dollars. And that is if I stop investing. There is no way I am doing that.
I live for today. I live in the moment. I stop and smell the roses. I enjoy the present, but save like I am going to live forever.
Stop worrying about the world ending today. It’s already tomorrow in Australia. – Charles M. Schulz, creator of the Peanuts
I like to plan in advance. I have a plan to create a plan.
“If plan A doesn’t work, the alphabet has 25 more letters – 204 if you’re in Japan.”― Claire Cook, Seven Year Switch
If I want something, then I go get if. I get off my duff and go make it happen. Don’t complain. Go do something about it. To quote Mindy Kaling, “We are all just a treadmill and six laser hair removal treatments from being Ryan Reynolds and Blake Lively.”
Ask for credit when you don’t need it. Credit dries up like tears in a recession. That’s just my two cents. Back in the 2008-09 recession, they cut my credit lines in half. Overnight *poof* half my credit limits were gone. Like a puff of smoke.
The thing is that work gives us something to do. It lets humans be productive.
If you have $1.5 million at age 65, you have a much shorter retirement to spend on versus at 37.
What really makes the difference is that by age 55-60 many people are empty nesters, own a home, and already own most of their possessions.
You have a lot less things to buy because you have what you need already.
When you are 35, you may still have no kids, are just starting, or have a young family. You have costs that are still rising like inflation.
Empty nesters are not worried about paying for college. Its paid for. That’s in their rear-view. Juniors 529 is spent.
If you are still raising kids, it is likely you will need a decent income and a job. Kids cost…a lot. Most people are still buying homes, cars and having kids well into their 40s these days.
One of the biggest expenses that a job helps subsidize is healthcare.
Financial blogger Financial Samurai puts this into perspective: “Just know that once you get to your target number, you might find that your needs have changed. Life is unpredictable. A job helps you subsidize health care costs that are increasingly becoming a racket IMO, but it would help reduce our $2,380/month health care bill. However, I am grateful for every day.”
You want to retire early. Here is what Suze has to say.
Orman: “It would have to be in the millions . . . You need at least $5 million, $6 million.” (She later says $10 million to account for taxes.)
FIRE proponents fired back at Orman that she has it all wrong.
Really? When a government shutdown causes people to be in soup kitchen lines, then I beg to differ. Here were some of the things I read online during the 35-day government shutdown last year:
- “I only have $1.06 in my bank account. I don’t know what I am going to do.”
- “I can’t pay my bills.”
- “I can’t afford groceries.”
- “I’m scared I won’t be able to pay my rent or mortgage.”
- “I can’t miss one paycheck.”
Not even one check? Even I try to keep a minimum of $10,000 in the bank at all times in savings. Just in case sh*t happens. I need that rainy day fund because when it rains it pours. Keeping a 3-6 month rainy day fund is what helps me sleep at night.
Now to be fair, the FIRE movement is about saving and investing your money. The more, the better. If you are practicing FIRE, then, in theory, you should be able to weather any storm.
Meanwhile, Orman isn’t sweating her emergence as somewhat of a villain in the FIRE community.
Now that COVID-19 has swept across the globe, it looks as if Suze may have been on to something when she always says, “hope for the best, but always plan for the worst.”
On one of her most recent podcasts she stated that a lot of her advice on saving that eight-month emergency fund has come to roost. She now thinks you need a 3-year emergency fund.
I have always been more about FI than RE because no matter what happens in this world, I know one thing to be sure; you will always need money in the bank.
Now I’m going to sign off on this post the same way Suze Orman ended her show on CNBC every night, “now you stay safe.”
So until next time…please be safe.
